A comment on my second "Attending the Old School" post mentioned that another OSR-focused blog - Wandering Wombat - had written up a very similar post about the impact of reaction rolls during their second session of Winter's Daughter mere days after my own. I had read Wombat's blog and responded in jest that the two of us should collaborate on a Winter's Daughter retrospective.
Later, I reached out to Wombat on a whim and, lo and behold, we decided to actually write up a look back on our experience with Old-School Essentials and Winter's Daughter together!
It turns out that we came to the adventure from a very similar place: both using it as a first adventure for groups new to the OSE rules. Our dialogue below focuses on our experience as referees with the adventure - how we approached it, our challenges while running it, and the elements that really made it a joy to run as a referee.
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| The jerk who kept Princess Snowfall-at-Dusk from her beloved (art by Erol Otus) |
How much experience did you and your players have with Old-School Essentials before this adventure?
eegag: Absolutely none. One player had played some Basic D&D as a kid, but even he came from more of an AD&D background.
wombat: Also none. I have two players who are recent converts - they have only played a 13 session run of "Blades in the Dark" before this game. My other two players are more experienced in general (AD&D, 5e, and other games) but not with OSE/Basic.
What house rules did you use, if any?
wombat: Hah! Isn't it the definition of Old-School to tinker? We've got a couple. The main one is encumbrance. We do (10 +Con mod) slots. Over that you are encumbered. Our magic users are also using Wonder&Wickedness magic (no spell levels, 1 cast per character level per day). Since we've introduced a couple of extra systems (herbalism from Cthonic Codex, Hunting from Into the Wyrd and Wild) but nothing else fundamental. I think that is one of the strengths of OSE (and basic D&D in general) - The absolute core of the game is a really simple fallback, but specific situations can be covered by an rule if necessary.
eegag: You are right about house rules essentially being part and parcel with the old school approach! For that very reason, I wanted to start by playing Old-School Essentials by the book, to make sure I gave the core rules a chance before ignoring anything (decades of wisdom be damned!). So, we did not use any house rules or even OSE Advanced Fantasy rules.
That said, after completing Winter's Daughter we have already decided to move to slot-based inventory. I also think any of the other bolt-on systems mentioned by Wombat above would work perfectly well in this adventure. As mentioned, the OSE chassis can take quite a lot of modifications and still run smoothly.
What level(s) were your Player Characters when they started the adventure?
eegag: I granted my players 2,000 xp upon character creation. This meant that my thief, cleric, and fighter all started at 2nd Level, and my magic-user was still at 1st Level. I don't believe this is necessary for the adventure - it isn't particularly deadly. I did want to impress upon my players the differences between classes when it comes to experience requirements, and help them understand the system a little more in general by leveling up before we even got started.
wombat: 1st level. This was the first D&D adventure for my current players. They had noticed immediately how fragile they were even though I gave max HP for the first level. The first encounter outside was with a talking beast (bear & deer) and they were very careful not to antagonise. The first real combat with the holy artifacts was a real wake up call - survivable but serious! I think this makes a really great introductory adventure. Yes there is some danger, but not if the characters are clever.
eegag: Yeah, it really does hit a sweet spot. If I run it again, I will not grant any bonus XP to start.
How many sessions did the adventure take?
eegag: 3 and a half. This included character creation, a scene setting up the inheritance plot hook, and the introduction of a new player after the first session. It's easily a 2-3 session adventure, even with a fairly methodical party.
wombat: 2-3. 2 for the actual adventure, and 1 for character creation. We used the "Beyond the Wall" character creation system of playbooks. It gave the character's a joint history and a home base town. It's a little time consuming, but everyone was excited and eager for the next session. I gave the players the option of 1 of the three hooks (Dreams, Inheritance, Plunderers) and they choose the Inheritance.
The actual "dungeon" took 2 sessions (voice+text, 3 hours) and the players were very focused. I could easily imagine 3 sessions if they had explored the side chambers or had more encounters.
Did you make any changes to the adventure as written?
eegag: A pair of minor changes:
- I thought that the stone coffers in the family crypt deserved a bit of treasure, especially since the dancing skeletons will attack if the party disturbs them. I turned Brandywith's ash staff into a minor wizard's staff and placed two gemstones on the eyes of Emaline's mummified cat. My party only found the staff.
- By the time they reached the Fairy Realm, 3 of my 4 players were covered in green slime. I had the effect wear off while in the Fairy Realm, but it returned once they came back to the mortal world.
wombat: The initial encounter (Drune Sacrifice) I changed to be "over", so our magic-users were fascinated with the magical residue of a ritual that gave hints... I also made the "floating slime" time limited (d6 turns) and wear off when entering the Fairy Realm.
Otherwise as written.
eegag: Interesting that you changed the old encounter to be more like the new encounter without necessarily knowing of the new encounter beforehand!
Did any of your Player Characters die? How?
wombat: No, but it came damn close! In the first chamber with the "angry holy items" everyone was wary of the whispering voices, except for our Witch's Apprentice who accused right back and walked in.. and was mobbed by all 4. She only survived thanks to being literally covered by the Knight (who survived thanks to shield and heavy armor).
After that they got serious about marching order, and trying not to antagonise anything!
eegag: Even with the bonus XP to start, we had our fair share of close calls as well. My party's weakest member - the thief with a -2 CON modifier - was also the only non-Lawful player. This meant that the holy objects went straight for him when they attacked. He was incredibly lucky to survive that encounter. My party's slow fighter also got surrounded by guards in the Fairy Realm and had to pull out a few tricks to keep the pursuit at bay long enough to get back home.
How much treasure did your players carry back to town?
eegag: 6,300 gp - they got the jewelry from the dancing skeletons, Chyde's bracelets and candlesticks, about 20 items from Snowfall-at-Dusk's jewelry boxes, and a couple of other small items. Additionally, the Fighter took Chyde's enchanted sword.
wombat: Wow, I was a little generous perhaps? The players were very careful not to plunder the tomb (belongs to their family! Although the Freezing Mirror was taken. The main reward came from the jewelry box - they were given the box as a reward for reuniting the pair (Princess was "encouraged" by the other elves) as well as fur coats and a necklace each. The most prized reward was a bottle of Fairy wine (which for us was a multiple dose "healing" potion).
eegag: My players got really spooked by the freezing mirror. Once they unfroze those who had been paralyzed, they kept their distance. I had hoped that they would haul it out or, better yet, use it as a weapon!
What room or encounter did you find the most difficult to adjudicate?
wombat: Most of it was a breeze to be honest. There were clues lying around, there was a very strong "fairytale logic" that the players latched onto and used to their advantage. Chyde had to "give directions" though as the players got the impression that the "fairyland" was somewhere else in Dolmenwood.
eegag: I had some trouble in the Fairy Prison. I didn't know how to handle their interactions with the bored guests other than very basic responses. It was hard for me to convey what was really going on there - that they had been waiting for ages. And then, when my thief stole Snowfall-at-Dusk's jewelry, how would they react? Of course the guards immediately responded, but I had the guests stand by confused as they watched the guards chase the party out of the tower. They were just kind of ... there in the background.
Looking back I suppose I could have made a reaction roll for them, but since they weren't the primary participants of the encounter I didn't consider it at the time.
What surprised you the most about how your players handled a particular challenge?
eegag: I did not expect them to engage as much as they did with the dancing skeletons. Because I used the inheritance plot hook, the fighter and thief appealed to the skeletons as their ancestors, and with the help of positive reaction rolls won them over. As a result, that encounter really moved the whole adventure along - literally, as some of the PCs went on a floating dancing tour of the burial mound's main rooms. All of this came from an encounter that I had expected might just end in a Turn Undead attempt!
wombat: Ha! You and me both. The Skeleton couple were the MVPs of the adventure. My players got the names of the dogs out of them as well - they supposed that the parents of Chyde would know what he called his dogs. So after a funny social scene/impromptu ball, the players had the names and had promised to take the Skeleton couple to visit their descendants.
eegag: Yep, although my skellies didn't outright give them the name, they took them to see the mural of their son and the players took it from there.
Do you consider the adventure easy to run? What made it easy (or difficult)?
wombat: This was a breeze to run. Maps on the front/back inside covers, the layout of the rooms (lists, bolded words, etc) made it easy to describe what was visible and adjudicate what the results of interaction were. Also the "fairytale logic" inherent in the plot made it easy for the players to pick up what was going on.
eegag: Incredibly easy, one of the easiest I've ever run, and definitely the easiest that wasn't a one-page dungeon. The pacing, especially with the new Whything Stones scene, made it feel like the adventure moved itself forward. For such a short adventure, it's packed with a great mix of curiosities, puzzles, encounters, and loot, all while maintaining a consistent internal logic (or, like you say, the inherent "fairytale logic.").
Would you make any changes to the adventure if you ran it again? If so, what?
eegag: I would keep the minor changes that I made this time, and I would probably add some reference to cold iron within the burial mound itself (perhaps a cold iron dagger held by the footmen statues has "elfbane" engraved on the hilt).
One bigger change that I considered has to do with the original "Whything Stones" encounter. I quite like the new version. It hints toward spooky goings on without interrupting the pacing of the adventure and it's a better choice in this context. However, the Drune arriving and beginning a sacrifice (from the old version) could serve as a very interesting random encounter if the party has explored the tomb for more than a few hours. I'd only add that, however, if you were exploring the larger Dolmenwood setting as an ongoing campaign.
wombat: Hmm. I would make more of the Elfin celebration - all those nobles and knights sitting eating and making small talk. I think I'd give more names (I had "The master of ceremonies" as the main point of interaction) and have them make requests of the PCs. I mean - bored, jaded Elves looking for distraction!
I almost would want to change the location of the portal to fairy... perhaps add another staircase in the chamber with Chyde? Not 100% sure though.
But other than that, I LOVE this adventure and want to try a few more by Gavin Norman to see how they compare.
eegag: Ah, I like your Master of Ceremonies idea. That could have helped me handle the bored guests and really show that boredom to the players (as the MC requests some entertainment because he has run out of ideas or whatever).
I think Winter's Daughter can be easily tweaked for any table, but it doesn't require any changes at all to be a ton of fun. At the moment, Mr. Norman has the Midas Touch. My party is headed to the Incandescent Grottoes next, and I can't wait!
